Saturday, November 1, 2008

Class vs Trash

I am blessed to have some wonderful girl friends in Second Life. They are charming, intelligent, funny, talented women. They're good listeners, they can talk your ear off about almost any subject, and they can make you laugh until you cry. And yes, they have some of the most gorgeous avatars on the grid. They have all spent a great deal of time in making themselves look wonderful. They are not vain about it, at least not that I have been able to notice, but their avatars are as beautiful on the outside as they are on the inside. But one thing keeps coming up in my conversations with them.

Men do not notice them.

Back when I was single, this was something that I always wondered about. Why was it that men passed me over to go with some 8 foot glamazon bimbo who couldn't type to save her life? I was told that I was a bit intimidating in a way, because at the time I was blogging full force and I had a store and I looked good. I didn't get it, but I accepted the answer. I just didn't understand why a man would want to go with someone that he couldn't hold a conversation with in a world where conversation is a huge part of our daily life. Until I found a man who was interested in talking to me and who actually wanted to DATE me in Second Life, I really thought most men in SL were kind of jerks. I don't think a lot of guys would be willing to put in a month of dating before any kind of poseball action. [Some girls may not either, but that's not what we're talking about at the moment.]

I see my girl friends going through the same thing I went through back then. Guys are passing over these beautiful women and running to women who look like this.


[Thank you, Cen, for the picture. LOL]

We actually had a discussion about this topic a couple of weeks ago in the group after this came up:

"Is it just me though or are the big-haired, big-boobed, clicky-boots crowd the ones having to turn guys away? seems like the better put together you are, the less popular."

We all pretty much agreed that it seems to be true, at least as far as we can see. So we asked the guys that we know. Most of them right away said that they don't go for the bimbo dumb girls, and considering the women that they are with and that I have seen them hang around, I know this is true. The common theory is that most men who come to Second Life come for the virtual sex, and the women who run around with their butts hanging out of their shorts, blinging, and using gestures in place of conversation are looked at as being easy. They're the ones who look like you won't have to do too much work to get them on that poseball. And, as one of the guys mentioned, after it's over you can not IM them for 2 weeks and the moment you do, they're still right there. They're not taken seriously.

But a well put together woman is different. They're the ones you have to actually talk to. They're the ones who don't NEED a man and so if they choose you, you're very lucky. They're the ones who really might not hop into bed with you an hour after talking, they might actually want to explore or do something. They are, in short, a little more work.

I think of it like this: You can go to Freebie Island and pick up a pair of jeans. They might have bad seams, look smeared in the inner thigh, and are a bad texture, but they are pants and serve their purpose. However, if you look around, you'll find a gorgeous pair of jeans that sit just right, have great prim cuffs, and make your butt look unbelievably cute. But they cost more to get than the freebie pair. The quality, though, is unmistakable. So you throw out those old freebie jeans, and you appreciate your new quality item that you had to actually work a little to get.

It also came up that men may actually like the trashier looking women because they can't get a woman like that in their real lives. Kind of like going to a strip club and coming home with the stripper. It doesn't happen that often in RL, perhaps, but in SL it could happen every night.

The one thing that was said that I thought was good was that a man who is confident and has a good self esteem would want a woman who is put together and has class because she would be a compliment to him. After all, if you're a man and you take pride in your appearance and you have made something of yourself, why would you choose someone who is consistently doing the baby giggle, using textspeak all the time, bling blanging away, and you can't even talk to? You would want to go for someone who is intelligent and worth something, right?

And does it go the other way? Are women picking these steroid-looking, gorilla men who can't go out without blang and guns or have a conversation without 20 gestures over the sweet, smart, decent men for a reason? Because hey, I do know some great guys in SL that need dates, too.

This is in no way meant to offend anyone. Some people enjoy an extreme "sexy" look in SL and some do not. Some are there for only sex and some are not. But guys, if you want to meet some wonderful, smart, funny women in SL, look over at my blogroll. Most of my girl friends are there, and they are amazing.

No bashing allowed, but I'd love to see other opinions on this topic.


Anonymous said...

*nods in agreement*

Nothing to add really except if you girls think you have it bad try finding the same kind of man we have been talking about but around my age (20) in SL and then you'll know how bad it can get :p

Joonie said...

Ali...I love this post. LOVE IT! And you are right and the second person today to mention that waiting for the right person who will treat you with respect is so much better than than being with someone just to be with someone.

I think it starts with self-respect first and goes from there. And knowing what you want...and what you don't want.

Thanks for this awesome post, Ali! :)

Eliza Wrigglesworth said...

Hey! I'm working on it.

I'll be putting an advertisement/freebie at infohubs soon. I'm looking for more ideas if anybody has them please.

I love men, and I just wish more designers would pay some attention to them.

By the way, who are these man-friends of yours? I'd love to meet some : ))

Tristan Micheline said...


Well done Ali. =)

Bella said...

Amen Sister!!! I am sick of the endless skank patrol!

Sai Pennell said...

Glad you finally got this post up, I've been waiting for it.

This whole thing is mind boggling to me, I think mainly because I don't understand how the male brain works XD

But, great post, Alicia - I agree with every word ^^

Lilly Lalonde said...

I wish I could agree but I meet my partner as my more trashier alt.:-O
And OMG yes we met at a sex club. But in that Hi, Hello, How are you kind of way. We had a nice conversation and danced the first night we meet. So not all those trashily dressed girls are as dumb or trashy as they look some are intelligent women who are maybe playing out their trashier side. Doing things or dressing in ways they never ever would in rl. But yes some are just a blinging blanging mess.

Emyly Beaumont said...

I absolutely agree with you. I am a petite small bosomed AV with groups such as Ballet Pixelle and Early Music listed in between the club memberships I hold. I have a career in SL as a dance choreograher and I too have been told that my profile and my look are intimidating; the comment I hear most often is "you are out of my league". LOL. So I choose to dance alone until that really special someone comes along.

Bon Berman said...

Hey Ali, I would say that guys most definately do notice the ladies you speak of. I can't imagine them not; you ladies are all exceptional.

I don't think there is any one answer.

Guys are often intimidated by smart and successful women. I know I find some of your friend intimidating but I am lucky enough to see them in group chat, and see how down-to-earth and nice they are.

I think you are right, a lot of guys in SL don't want to make an effort. They don't want to have to work at anything. They just want it to be easy.

A lot of guys don't take rejection so well. There is a greater risk of rejection when approaching a "classy" woman then approaching a "trashy" woman.

There is no easy answer except to keep being their wonderful selves and don't settle.

Mena Nadezda said...

...i agree with you Ali,gosh...ill open a fan club for you as soon as i log in.
now the question is: as i am NOT on your blogroll...can you still run the "flavour of love" contest.....please *cough*doitfornikkiandme*cough*

Unknown said...

I'm not sure if my response is really valid. I am married in RL and will not have an intimate or exclusive relationship in SL. I will not get a woman to the poseballs in a day, a week, a month or a year.

But I do have some very wonderful friends. They are respectable and wear more pixels. They do not max out particular sliders.

As far as women being intimidating . . . even though I am not looking for a girlfriend, I do sometimes assume that women have too much going on to have time to talk to me. And I've often found I've been wrong on that!

Finally, I would say that the men who pass you (the classy women) are mostly ones that you *want* to pass you by. If they are going to go for the trashy, do you really want to have to keep telling them "no"?

Anonymous said...

Fantastic post. I see this happening a lot too, and there are the guys who IM you every now and then just to ask "so are you single now?" And if you say no, you probably won't hear from them again in a very long time.

But I guess you're right, perhaps they don't get those "bling" girls a lot in RL, and would rather spend time with them than intimidating or serious girls in SL.

And I totally agree with what Laleeta said. :)

Emme Mannonen said...

I agree with you, I'm never really approached by men, but it seems when I go out with some more scantily clad friends they always get hit on. :-( I have alot of guy friends but none in that romantic way and I dunno perhaps my profile can be a little too intimidating, someone check and gimme their P.O.V lol.

But what I do think gets in the way after initially meeting someone is that I tell them that I do have rules regarding relationships in RL/SL. I keep them totally separate and I think sometimes guys can't deal with that.

Or maybe I'm just too obnoxious or they see me as catty. I dunno. I even forgot my point! Great post!

Jerremy Darwin said...

Great blog. I have seen that going on too. Personally, I have always liked a smarter woman who could hold a conversation and was funny. It doesn't hurt if they like my brand of humor too. I also like when a person really shows that they are trying to make their life in SL interesting. Be that building, having a business, blogging or spending time on just the right look. I was fortunate to find someone who did all that and more :-) Maybe there need to be a club or someplace in SL for the serious people to meet? Have a "No Blingtards" sign on the door LOL.

Casandra Shilova said...

A side note: If men care about any RL or SL relationship you have, they don't want to find out about it after you've spent time getting to know each other even if they don't want to be intimate.

I upset a couple of men when they found out I was married, so I added it to my 1st Life tab. I also have my bf in my picks (looks like his AV - I have pics :D )

Laleeta - it's not all it's cracked up to be at least in my case. My bf is doing the same things in RL that I was at 26. He's not settled into his life yet, sitting around home in the evenings, logging on. so...... Many people think I'm foolish, but I think he's worth it and SL is full of things to do when he's not on.

Casandra Shilova said...

And half the men who hit on me can't put a sentence together. Maybe one reason they give us a pass is that we look (and profiles read) like we expect conversation and not just come on lines.

Anonymous said...

No offense meant but this post stinks of snobbery
Admittedly I don't like the 'trashy' look but that doesn't mean I have more class than them
Maybe its that you don't stand out that men don't approach you?
Your fashion sense is dreary and you have a touch of Barbie about you
Its almost childlike

Myg (Mercy Brown) said...

@anonymous, oh gosh, I can't see how anyone would be offended by your comment. Everybody knows whenever you say "NO OFFENSE" you get a free license to be a catty, obnoxious bitch who is so well intentioned, she/he can't bring him/herself to use her/his real name.

Seriously now.

Anonymous said...

As non-American, I often just sigh when I read profiles where their picks and first page is filled up with "advice for men". "Don't talk to me unless..."

I hope you and your friends aren't using your profiles like that, because I know it would be a turn-off if I was a man looking for romance or maybe just someone to dance and talk with.

Saying "you are out of my league" sounds like a polite way to say: "I don't bother because you will never be satisfied with what I can offer".

And speaking of that, what do you offer in return? Sure you all look good, but not so special. Think "Pretty Woman" here. It's easy to take a newbie and shine her up, and make her look fabulous. And she will be overwhelmed...

spek said...

Great post!

I too have had the same troubles finding "quality" in SL, and would rather spend my time as a monk than to settle for cheap SLex with any clickity-booted-blingtard. For me it is more about the connection, intimacy and just sharing time with a "fellow traveler" - someone to experience this crazy place with. Now don't get me wrong, I do have an appreciation for a very beautiful av, but it means nothing if the person at the keyboard has no substance.

I've also been told I seem intimidating and difficult to approach, and I suppose I only have myself to blame as I am generally a bit shy when meeting someone new. Being shirtless most of the time and sporting a mohawk, kilt and combat boots doesn't help either, I suppose :P (FYI - I do clean up well)

My apologies for the rambling. I stumbled across your blog by chance and although I rarely comment, I felt compelled to share my feelings on the subject. Thank you for posting this :)

dandellion said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

My answer got out of control... Bimbos, Statistics and Girls Next Door

C said...

OK, first I want to clarify that yes that is a picture of me, but it was done deliberately to prove this point and NO Alicia is not calling me an oily skanky glamazon LOL

Great post Ali, you and I have discussed this many times but it always makes me a bit uncomfortable because I actually do get hit on a lot. OK maybe not a lot, but apparently more than my friends do so I don't know what that means LOL.

If the theory is true, I look skanky? LOL If it's about intimidation maybe because I'm not as well put together, or not sucessful or whatever people aren't intimidated LOL I have no idea.

It is true though that I have smart, funny, caring, generous, talented, successful friends with well put together avies (male and female!) who just don't seem to get approached and I never know why.

Emerald Wynn said...

Ah, I'm bummed that I'm just catching this post now.

What intrigues me more is that fact that I come to SL as a form of recreation and often escape . . . yet I find myself under the same societal pressures there: to couple up -- even to take it as far as "partnering" (with wedding ceremonies!!!!) and, in some cases, having babies. OMG, I'm under enough pressure to accomplish these feats in real life!

Are we saying that SL isn't as fun if you don't have a partner/bf/companion? And if we're in SL seeking a bf/companion/partner, why aren't we devoting that time to enriching our RL relationships instead?

Sorry to be the cynical realist in this bunch. I have a love/hate relationship with SL, as many of my friends know. I love the fantasy I can create with it and the friends I've made there, but at the end of the day, there's always the harsh reality that I DON'T live in a cute house on the beach, that I DON'T have a fabulous rack or an ever-expanding wardrobe, and that I really should be seeking more fulfillment in my RL, not a fantasy. My God, to me, trying to "couple up" with a guy in SL would only warp this perspective even further.

I will be honest and say I don't even understand why people "date" or "partner" in SL -- not that I look down on or think people who do are weirdos -- I just don't understand it. Why bother if at the end of the day it isn't real?? This has always been a mystery to me, so I guess everyone can dogpile me now for not having an imagination. :)

Thanks for the thought-provoking post!